In response to both Jeffrey and kind of Zach on the topic of why Paulus killed his child, I disagree that he killed it to cut ties with Thebedi. If he wanted to cut ties with her he could have done it other ways. I think Paulus just acted on his feelings too quickly. He was obviously upset and shamed of the child, but I'm upset over a lot of things and I don't kill people. This shows what apartheid did to people's emotions. If he had thought about what he wanted to do for a while longer I don't think he would have committed murder.

Initial Response

At first I couldn't believe a man could kill his own child just because of its skin color, but sometimes people kill others just because they want to. Apartheid was the reason that Paulus killed his baby, because he didn't want to ruin his (or Thebedi's) reputation or image, but I also think, as sadistic as it may be, at least he could justify it in his own brain and even to the people of his community as a valid reason. Some humans can't justify their actions at all, and human nature goes beyond laws such as apartheid sometimes. So yes, it's horrible he killed his baby, it's horrible that society told him he should kill his baby, it's horrible society made him want to kill himself, but at this time his thoughts and actions were understandable. No matter how understandable, however, killing your child--or anybody--is still a crime and was treated as such.

INITIAL RESPONSE !

I thought that this book was very sad. I couldn't believe that Paulus would kill his own baby. It really shows how ridiculous the apartheid was in the way Africans and white people interacted with each other. I think that Paulus really didn't love Thebedi because if he truly did, he wouldn't have been afraid of what the other white people think and he wouldn't have felt the need to get rid of his own baby to hid what happened between him and Thebedi. I couldn't believe that Thebedi didn't tell the judge that Paulus killed their baby. I think that she loved Paulus, but Paulus never really loved her back. He went on other dates with white girls, and only spent time with Thebedi on the weekends. I think that pretty much everything that Paulus did to Thebedi was unfair to her. She was loyal to him and only married because she was forced to. Paulus had a choice and he still went out with other girls, even though he said that he loved Thebedi.

In response to Kerstien's post, I agree with her when she brought up that Theibe could have easily been blamed for the baby. In disagreement though, we only see Theibe's side of the story, so we don't truely know how Paulus really feels about her. We can assume that he loves her, but thats mostly from the outside perspective and not his. He could have had different motives behind his relationship with Theibe and when the baby was around he didn't ever think of how she would feel when he said he wanted to die or when he questionably "killed the baby". But I still agree with her when she talked about there difference in color and the seperation it puts between them.

I disagree with Evan's statement that Thebedi killed her baby. The baby was being taken care of. It was accepted by Njabulo and he was trying to take care of the baby however he could. He never asked or accused he just accepted it. Because of this I don't think Thebedi really had any reason to kill her baby. I think Paulus did it because he wanted to fit in with the expectations. He knew that if anyone were to find out about the baby, it would not be accepted. He had the real motive.

I agree with Deanna in the Paulus killed the baby because of what other people were saying about it. I think its sad that he had to do what he did just because of the pressures from other poeple. Having a different race should not have to break up relationships and end in the killing of poeple

Country lovers

I think that this story really shows the impact that apartheid had on both the white and black people of Africa. It is a very sad story about the love that was forbidden between the whites and blacks. I do believe that the boy was guilty of killing the baby, which is one of the most sick things you can possibly do. He did have good reason to hate the baby, but he also made some really stupid mistakes and deserved what he got. In the end the boy was found not guilty, although I wish he would have been found guilty for murder.

In response to Tanya's post, I disagree with her statement that Paulus just lost his feelings after he knew about the baby. I think that he did have feelings for her, even if they were just small ones. I also think that Paulus did kill the baby. He felt so pressured that he felt the need to kill the baby so that he would be accepted. He felt so pressued he really didn't know how to handle the situation.

After reading Jeffrey's post, I viewed the story differently.  Jeffrey spoke of how the baby was killed to cut ties to Thebedi.  I never even thought of this.  After considering this,  it made me wonder.  Did he want to cut ties because he knew the relationship wouldn't work out, or because he simply couldn't handle the scrutiny he received from others? Either way, after reading Jeffrey's post, my viewing on the story changed.

In response to Evan's post, I agreed about the part where they truly loved each other in the beginning.  However, I disagree when you said Thebedi killed the baby.   I don't think she did because nothing would happen if she did kill it.  The child was already accepted by her community and killing it would only be an act of evil.   However, I think Paulus killed it because he had a reason to.  Its a shame to have a black child and he wanted to erase the evidence of ever having it.  I think that Thebedi still loved Paulus but Paulus could not love her back anymore because of the baby.

I agree with Kerstins response because I like that she brought up the fact that even though Paulus was white and Thebedi was black, Paulus was still tried for the killing of the baby. Back how things were during the Apartheid, they could have easily just blamed the Thebedi because she was black and they were treated unfairly.

In response to Tanya's post, I mainly agree with everything except when you said that the baby just died.  Although Paulus was said to be not guilty, there was evidence that made me think he was guilty.  I found it suspicious  that he just walked in the hut with the baby two days later after he already saw it and left again.  Then, just a little later it died.  Also, Paulus had a reason to kill the baby because he didn't want the shame of having a mixed baby so he just ended it there.

I agree with Brittany in the fact that Apartheid ruined many joys in life and even brought some lives to an end. The fact that this baby was killed just because of its skin, which is a theory of why it was killed, makes me feel sad that thousands of people had to live with that each and everyday of their lives.

Response to Evan

I do not believe Thebedi killed her baby because the only reason she would have is that it ties her to a man she doesn't love but if she is sane she would not kill any child especially not her own. No normal mother would think about killing there own child.

Country Lovers

Country Lovers does a very good job of describing the ravaging effects of Apartheid on Africa, but I think it takes it a little too far by saying that white people got away with killing black babies. I do believe that Paulus did kill the baby and should have been proven guilty for such offenses, but the story says he got away with it. I think that Paulus just went crazy after finding out that the love of his life is now married and they can never be together again.

I disagree with Evan saying that Thebedi killed her child. I dont think that she killed her own child because it wouldn't have had any effects on her if it had lived. The baby being of mixed decent wouldn't have brought any shame to her so i don't think she had a motive to kill the child.

Response to TJ

I disagree with TJ. I don't think that Paulus was innocent. I think he was guilty. I think he was so upset that a black woman had his child that he just had to kill it before word got around that it was his. The shame of having a mixed baby at this point in history was too much for him to bear so he tried to get rid of the eveidence.

I disagree with Abbi Ryan when she says it could never happen today, because it does all the time. Just because the Apartheid doesn't exist right now doesn't mean people are not victims of racism or killing babies.

I disagree with nate when he says that the aparthied makes people do what they wouldn't normally, becuase there are a lot of people who would even without the pressure, and just because the baby was his didn't mean he had to kill it, so he might've either way.

In response to evans blog I feel that he makes some good points but I disagree with a few also. I do believe that Thebedi was selfish and lied for her own benefit. She also may be the one who killed the baby. It makes sense that she would try and blame someone else so she could appear not guilty. However, I do not agree that paulus was as good as Evan described him. I think he was much more selfish and uncaring.

peer response

I disagree with what Evan says. Why would Thebedi kill her own child if she knew that nothing would happen to her because of the child? Clearly she wouldn't be punished because the child had already been accepted by the people of her community. For example her husband treated the child as his own andeven went as far as to spend what little money her had on her. Now Paulus, on the other hand, knew that if people of his ethnicity found out they would not be as accepting. So clearly he had the motive to kill the child not Thebedi.

I agree with Abbi's response to  Country Lovers. I think she's right in saying that it wasn't a fair life during the Apartheid. The relationship between Paulus and Thebedi was wrong during this time, but I think that if two people are in love than they should be able to be together. I disagree with Paulus killing the baby. I don't think anyone killed it I believe it just happened that way.

I agree with Jeff's response. I agree that Paulus was selfish because he did not want anyone to know that he had a baby with Thebedi. Paulus was thinking of himself and just wanted his situation to be better and not have anyone know about it.

I disagree with Evan's response. I do not believe that Thebedi would kill her own baby. I also do not believe that she was greedy. I think Paulus killed the baby because he was scared of what other people would say. I think he was scared of what other peo0ple would say because he is white and it was socially unacceptable to be with a native Afican, like Thebedi.

In response to TJ's post I thought that your opinion about apartheid was spot on and had some good facts behind it. I also agree that Paulus didn't kill the baby because he never showed anything against the baby to kill it.

In response to Jeff's post I agree with most of your opinions but I disagree with Paulus killing the child. I believe they were in love and wouldn't want to hurt each other. I really liked your opinion about apartheid.

Country Lovers

This story was rather good. I thought Paulus was a very relatable character for the time period he was in. He was actually very compassionate for the time period. I believe throughout the story they love each other and that they are soul mates, but they can't be together because of apartheid and this is where the novel really shines. I believe that Thebedi killed the baby because she was greedy otherwise she wouldn't have testified against him and lied about it. I think that they will still harbor feelings for each other but they won't act on them because Thebedi lied to the judge.

The story Country Lovers was definitely shows the struggles of Apartheid. Paulus and Thebedi could have lived a happy life with a quality relationship, but due to Paulus being white and Thebedi being black, this connection could never be right in the eyes of everyone else. By the conclusion of this story, I believe Paulus is not guilty, and had no real reason of killing the child. I don't believe he has the heart to pull it off.      

Response to Janae's post

In response to Janae's original post,  she made me think about the relationship between the two characters in a different way.  She made me think of how Paulus was a very selfish person throughout the entire story.  However, to play devil's advocate,  Paulus tried his best to keep his relationship alive.  He knew that if others found out about his love for Thebedi, they would be punished.  If he didn't love her as much as he did, he would have just let the relationship go.  He wouldn't try and keep it a secret.  That said, I still agree with Janae, who said he was selfish.  Even though he DID love her, he thought too much of what others would think, and not enough about the woman he loved. 

In response to Jeffery's blog I thought he made a few very good points. The fact that he said Paulus was selfish was something that I never really saw until now. He definitely handled things much more poorly than they had to be and the baby situation was uncalled for. I also like how he said they're relationship was different from other couples, it certainly was.

In response to Zach's blog, his point of bring up the baby being a symbol of something that should unite the couple is a tremendous tie into the story. Him seeing it in that way opens a new view of the couples relationship and how the Apartheid effected them. His point of Paulus being innocent is completely rational.  Zach adding the point in the story where Paulus says he wants to be dead then, the baby ending up dead, just support his argument of Paulus' innocents. Giving this point of view, in my opinion, makes Paulus more of a antagonist in the story. It also gives us an inside to Paulus' pressures and the realization of what the Apartheid made people under go.

response to peer

I agree with Deanna Boling when she says that society was the reason for what Paulus did. Because of how important the apartheid movement was Paulus believed that he could never let any one know that he had had a child with an African. It also caused him to believe that The only way out of the situation was to get rid of the child or the problem.

I think that Country Lovers did a good job of showing how apartheid in south Africa could push people to do things that no ordinary human would do. I don't know how a sane person can just walk into a house and kill there own child just because of the color of there skin. I didn't agree with Paulus' actions. If that was your child you should love her no matter what she looks like or acts like you should love her with everything you have just for the fact that it's your child.

Country lovers was a very sad story and showed the hardships of Apartheid very well. I think that Paulus and Thebedi had a very good understanding that they couldn't be together because of their race. Paulus had to deal with a lot of pressure to the point where he wanted to kill himself, which is not right. He ended up killing the baby because the pressure and hardships became to much. No one should ever be looked down upon or superior because of the color of their skin. Apartheid may have been legalized back then but it could never happen today.

Life during the apartheid was bad for the Africans because of the superiority the Afrikaners had over them, and the in the ways they used their power. There was an understanding between paulus and thebedi that because of their skin they could not be together. Paulus would be upset about the society they lived in, keeping them apart. In the end, paulus was found not guilty and let go.

I think in the story, Country Lovers, Apartheid is shown in a different way than it is shown in the other stories we've read. In this story I don't think you really see the hateful part of it so much as you see the separation between the two groups. This story shows how the pressure of Apartheid forced them do do horrible things. If Paulus and Thebedi didn't have to deal with Apartheid and the separation it caused, then they wouldn't have had that constant pressure. I think that pressure in the end is what caused Paulus to kill the baby. He knew that if anyone ever found out, they wouldn't accept it. Paulus seemed very selfish to me, and while I think he did have feelings for Thebedi, he seemed to do whatever it took to maintain his status.

initial response

This story, Country Lovers, is a horrifying story about the truths of apartheid's history. The fact that two people had a child out of love and then one of them kills that child because he is so afraid is a scary idea. Paulus and Thebedi were clearly in love but both understood that it could never happen between the two of them. This is sort of sad because I have always believed that true love is true love no matter what conditions there is. Meaning if two people are in love then nothing should prevent it. Apartheid prevented it and also caused Paulus to do what he did to the child. I also liked the fact that even though Paulus was white and Thebedi was African along with the child he was still taken to court and tried for what he did. This I thought, was justice even though he wasn't found guilty.

I also agree with others in my class. The Apartheid in Africa was extremely bad and there is no doubt about that. I think the short story, Country Lovers, is a good example of how the Apartheid really was. Paulus and Thebedi were clearly in love; but when Paulus found out Thebedi was pregnant I think Paulus got very worried. I believe with the society they lived in Paulus thought he had no choice but to kill the baby, although nothing was proven. I think he did it because he was scared of what others would have said, since being with the opposite race was not socially acceptable. It's sad what happened between Paulus and Thebedi because they both clearly loved eachother very much and had a strong bond.

I thought Country Lovers was a very sad story because it shows an example of a situation of life in the Apartheid.  I believed that Paulus and Thebedi truly liked each other in the beginning.  However, Paulus was white and Thebedi was black so it would be unlikely for them to ever be together due to the Apartheid.  This is shown when Thebedi has a baby after she becomes married to Njabulu.  Paulus comes back from vertinary college and sees that Thebedi has a baby and finds out it is his.  Instead of the relationship of Paulus and Thebedi getting stronger, Paulus feels "grimace of tears, anger and self-pity" and said he felt like killing himself.  In the end, I believed that the Paulus was guilty of killing the baby.  Because of Apartheid, Paulus knew he could never be in a serious relationship with someone from a different race.  I believe he did not kill the baby because he was evil but felt like he had to cut all ties with Thebedi knowing they could never be together.  To solve this problem, he killed the baby even though it was probably not the best decision he could of made.  If Apartheid didn't exist, they might of lived happily together but instead, relationships were torn apart and an innocent life was killed.

Country Lovers is truely a sad story yet horrifying truth of life during the Apartheid. Paulus seemed to me to be very selfish in the way he handled women and, in the end, handled the baby. I believe he took advantage of Thebedi and the feelings between them. The most important thing, in my opinion, to understand would be how they truely had to keep everything they do a complete secret and that the relationship they had was very taboo. Also, there was an understanding between Paulus and Thebedi about their relationship. For example, Thebedi never told Paulus about their baby because that would be over stepping the bounds of their relationship. Njabulo though, had a wonderful relationship between his wife and never asked about the baby. He conforted her when the baby died and worked hard to provide for his family. Country Lovers shows us the societies intolerance of opposite racial relationships. Paulus would have faced unacceptance and hatred from the situation he was in but that still did not give him a right to act as he did. When the baby died, someone told the police that the child was partically white and that launched an investigation. Paulus was never found guilty but he did not want to face the public after the verdict. The line his father says in the last sentence signifys a great deal of what truely went on during the Apartheid.

My view on apartheid is very similar to the others in my class.  The whole idea may have been acceptable at one time, but now a days, the thought of such a thing is just crazy.  I can't imagine having to live in such a time where the person I love is not allowed to be with me because of the color of their skin.  In the story, the two have a very deep bond that was present for a long time.  After so many years of not seeing each other very often, the two were still able to reconnect and remember what they had before.  The fact that a baby, which usually unites a man and a woman together, actually drove them apart, is very sad.  The baby should have been the one sure thing in the world that would insure the couple's love.  However, because of apartheid, the opposite happened.  Paulus couldn't handle all the gossip about the baby, and ended up killing the baby.  Of course, nothing is proven.  However, I find it hard to believe that a man who talks about wanting to be dead because of a baby, and then the baby turns up dead, is innocent of murder.  Also, the fact that the two never really saw each other anymore, just solidifies his guiltiness.  If he wasn't guilty, he would have tried to stay with Thebedi.  

I thought Country Lovers was incredibly sad. The two people obviously loved each other but because of apartheid, they could not be together and have a baby. The baby's coloring upset many people and because of that somebody killed it. I do not think it was a accident, a healthy baby rarely just dies. The race that it had also makes it more susceptible to be murdered. Its terrible that a baby losses its life because of the conflicts between people and the color of their skin. Overall apartheid ruins many joys in life. It splits couples, causes deaths and takes the happiness out of many lives.

I think life in South Africa during the Apartheid is really sad because, it's not fair to treat people like that. All people should be treated equal no matter their skin, background, religion, etc. In the short story "Country Lovers" I think that the girl and boy thought they loved each other at the time, but when he realized the baby was his he knew it was wrong and didn't like her as much anymore. At the end of the story I think the girl was disappointed in how the boy acted through all of the trials and stuff. I think she really liked him but, he had lost his feelings for her. I don't believe that anyone killed the child I think that just happened.